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| September 09, 2010 |
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Independent
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| Author | Acomb Independent |
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acomblad |
Posted: 2008-07-25 11:24
*****Acomb Independent Leagues*****
A few points for discussion (It is not set in stone, yet!) Due to players dropping out and games not being played on the appropriate night, it has been suggested to return to the format that the leagues were first set up for. This would mean Promotion and relegation from Monday through Tuesday and then Thursday. (Monday being division one, Tuesday division two and Thursday division three) Obviously not all players will agree with this, citing that they can only play on certain nights, but if players want to play in the Independent League then they would need to be available for all of the above nights - dependent on placement. I would need to confer with Chelle on the placement of Tuesday league players, but do know the merit of the majority of players in the league at the moment, so will place a temporary league placement list asap. (Obviously all players on the list would have to agree with the format and the list would be entirely suggestive at the moment) Commencement of the NEW league set-up would hinge on the finishing dates of the present leagues. That said I am sure that a date could be agreed and posted as soon as possible. New rules are also to be enforced in any upcoming leagues: - No games to be cancelled. - Any player missing a game has two weeks to play the postponed game or forfeit the match. - Two cancelled games = Expulsion from the league. - The postponed game will be played (if possible) on the regular league night that it was postponed on; meaning some players would have to play two games in one night. - Holidays, (exceptions in most cases) work commitments can be no excuse. These games should be played beforehand (if possible) and notification to the overall league organiser and individual night organiser would be expected, as well as notification to the player. (Not our job!) Feedback would be appreciated.........  Note: This may be altered to accommodate any feedback and/or other thoughts I may have. Division 1 - Monday Paul Thomas Simon Newby Rich Train Steve Thomas Dave Sanderson Si Morris Tony Lee John Hollingsworth Dave Potter Allan Scott Steve Wood Chris Leaf Danny Bodden (has-been) Si Hogbin Paul Wilson Division 2 - Tuesday Lucas Bingham Dave Potter John Patrick Russ Greaves Ash McGovern Nick Shields Mike Reid Lisa Macdonald Chelle Gatenby Simon Stead Steve Watson Paul Walton Claire McPherson Les Smith Paul Maude Division 3 - Thursday Matt McCartney Colin ? 2 Pies Chris McPherson Isaac Green Sam Pearson Gaz ??? Liam Pearson Kirsty Mitchison Stuart Galloway Obviously some people will drop out, but hopefully some new players will enter. [ This message was edited by: acomblad on 2008-09-16 09:36 ]  Profile
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Leejam88 |
Posted: 2008-07-25 13:06
Those new rules seem sensible to me, I've debated similar with the Cueball league cos it is annoying when half the games seem to be played on other nights of the week, or not for weeks after they are meant to be. I think the 3 week rule is the best you can do cos you still want the league decided on the table and not because of forfeits, but if the people concerned cant arrange it during that period then its their own fault-like you say you cant actually force people (nor should you have to) to stick to the fixtures...
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DaveP |
Posted: 2008-07-25 18:08
i,ve always thought there should be promotion / relegation between the respective leagues but i must admit i,ve taken advantage (joining two leagues).
i also think for this to work the organisers will have to be ruthless in sorting out nights for people to play and the attendence will go down before it goes up. i also agree with a time limit for unplayed matches this would avoid the backlog of catch up games at the end of every season. It seems funny that not many games are postponed in the last couple of weeks of the season which makes me think people make more of an effort. lastly i think no catchup games should be allowed after the penultimate match [ This message was edited by: DaveP on 2008-07-26 13:02 ] Profile
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SiHoggy |
Posted: 2008-07-26 18:56
If the majority of the above listed people stick in and go along with it I think it'll be a good system.
Lets just hope noone gets the hump about where they are placed or what night they can play on. Thumbs up from me. Profile
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Lurch |
Posted: 2008-07-26 19:06
I've only skimmed through the opening post, so apologies if you mention it, but when are you looking at starting this!
I currently play in Selby on a Monday night but am getting fed up with it. I think the summer league only has 4 weeks to go and if it fits with the start of this, I might be tempted to put my name down! How much is it to play? Profile
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Lurch |
Posted: 2008-07-26 19:07
Of course, that is assuming I would get in on a Monday!
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acomblad |
Posted: 2008-07-26 21:15
On 2008-07-26 19:06 , Lurch Wrote:
!!! QUOTE !!! I've only skimmed through the opening post, so apologies if you mention it, but when are you looking at starting this! The Monday league finishes on the 25th August, the Tuesday league on the 29th July and the Thursday league on the 31st July (if I cut it to two rounds) or the 9th October if not. Would have to speak to Paul concerning start dates. Concerning the amount to pay; going on this season the entry was £30 and £5 subs per week for a Monday and £30 and £3 respectively for the other divisions/leagues. (You will know this Dave, but just explaining for all.) The new system would be dependent on numbers. The 2nd, 3rd and 4th divisions may have to settle for a lower pay out when the number of players entered and games played are taken into consideration, i.e. all divisions would have to run the same number of weeks, to tie in. Will let you know asap. Oh BTW, you would be in Monday, division 1........... [ This message was edited by: acomblad on 2008-07-26 21:16 ] Profile
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POOK |
Posted: 2008-07-26 21:53
I think this is a better system. The only stumbling block in my eyes is the 3 weekcatch up in advance idea. Some players might be away for a 2 week holiday but this can fall awkardly where you can miss say 3 mondays due to travelling, etc. This will mean it will be very difficult to play the games pre-holiday!! To forfeit or claim a match will alter the tables considerably!!
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acomblad |
Posted: 2008-07-27 13:22
On 2008-07-26 21:53 , POOK Wrote:
!!! QUOTE !!! I think this is a better system. The only stumbling block in my eyes is the 3 weekcatch up in advance idea. Some players might be away for a 2 week holiday but this can fall awkardly where you can miss say 3 mondays due to travelling, etc. This will mean it will be very difficult to play the games pre-holiday!! To forfeit or claim a match will alter the tables considerably!! No Pook! The 3 week catch up is as it says "3 weeks to catch up" games that have been postponed due to some reason or other, which may include holidays. That said, I think people know when their holiday is due, so my "suggestion" was to play beforehand. (No time limit) Everyone may have some negative thoughts on the rules, but it is up to the organisers to enforce/relax the rules depending on the circumstances. Also, if players are concerned about altering the tables due to forfeiting matches. Simple! Get them played within the time limit................ [ This message was edited by: acomblad on 2008-07-27 13:31 ] Profile
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ThePower |
Posted: 2008-07-27 15:06
good idea steve but as i have already said i cant play on mondays
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acomblad |
Posted: 2008-07-28 14:01
On 2008-07-27 15:06 , ThePower Wrote:
!!! QUOTE !!! good idea steve but as i have already said i cant play on mondays As stated it is not set in stone, yet! Unfortunately it looks like it will be going ahead with or without the players who can not make their allocated nights. I do understand that some people have other things on, and therefore may not be able to make certain nights, but to make the system work then only players that are flexible will benefit from it......... *Note* Can new/old players pm/text/e-mail me if they are interested in playing under this new system. (My details are in the Sunday side block - fixtures) Much appreciated. Profile
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Lurch |
Posted: 2008-07-28 14:16
Steve, I have no problem with the new system but will have to let you know in a few weeks whether I will be joining for certain or not!
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acomblad |
Posted: 2008-07-28 15:14
On 2008-07-28 14:16 , Lurch Wrote:
!!! QUOTE !!! Steve, I have no problem with the new system but will have to let you know in a few weeks whether I will be joining for certain or not! Just put your name down as a possible Dave (They all are until further notice). Will have details of new start date asap, but looks like Monday 1st September could be a start date for division 1, and the 2nd and 4th of September the start date for the other divisions (dependent on numbers) [ This message was edited by: acomblad on 2008-07-28 15:22 ] Profile
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Ash |
Posted: 2008-07-30 11:22
There will always be people who cannot play other than the days they are playing. I for one, can only play on Tuesday. I joined the Tuesday league a couple of years ago. I did this to play pool on a day that I could. I enjoy the pool, the people, the banter and the competition.
The end of season shows, what a great competition it has been this season. Very close indeed. The likes of Chris Dower, who also enjoys Tuesdays and has won two seasons in a row, but he is there to be beaten and does improve his opponents. I think it is a little patronising to suggest that he should not be in our division - as proven this season as he has been beaten several times and was run very close to winner of the division. Promotion to Another night is not viable for a hobby sport. IF it were that we were being paid to play and not the other way round, then you can force people to play on certain nights. As it is, we choose to play. You could however, as its a pub, enforce rules that stipulate who comes in on certain nights.... choose your customers. It is a pub and not a club. The three week ruling is probably a sensible ruling. Although, I think there is only a problem in one of our divisons / nights. DIvision one. I don't think anyone would want to be promoted to a division that may be decided on weather your opponent can turn up or not. If we are to aspire to the top division, then give us something to aspire to! Profile
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Champ |
Posted: 2008-07-30 12:22
He has won it last 2 seasons therefore should try himself in the monday league providing he can make it on monday nights.
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acomblad |
Posted: 2008-07-30 12:51
On 2008-07-30 11:22 , Ash Wrote:
!!! QUOTE !!! There will always be people who cannot play other than the days they are playing. I for one, can only play on Tuesday. I joined the Tuesday league a couple of years ago. I did this to play pool on a day that I could. I enjoy the pool, the people, the banter and the competition. Fair play to you and the players who can only play on a Tuesday. The problem is that the league was originally set up for promotion and relegation. Not just for you! True, some players can only make certain nights due to other hobby commitments, (Chris Dower - Snooker) but it is still about hobby choice for the individual not just night choice. A compromise could be arranged for some Tuesday players to continue playing on a Tuesday (just call it Division 4) The problem we have is if any player is promoted to Division 3 (Thursday) they will instantly say they can't make it. (What choice for the organisers then?) !!! QUOTE !!!
Very close for who - 3 or 4 players? What about the players who are finishing bottom each season? Or is the league set up just for YOUR night out? !!! QUOTE !!!
Who suggested it? Or do you mean by placing him in a higher division than you I am saying he is better than you? Well then, in my opinion, yes he is. This is not about you or your division. Do you not get it? !!! QUOTE !!!
Is it not viable? True it is a hobby sport and as such only players who are flexible in their hobby would be accepted into the new league - if it goes ahead. The players choose to play pool in the Acomb Independent and as such should turn up on their allocated nights. This has not been happening for a couple of seasons (coincidence) so change is warranted. Promotion/relegation is viable if the players involved want it. Your opinion, however much you want it to be true is still an opinion and as such will be deemed just that. !!! QUOTE !!!
The problem has been the Tuesdays for a few seasons! Only this season has the Monday league been a bit behind due to holidays and drop-outs. No defence for it though, the ruling should have been in place last season !!! QUOTE !!!
I am trying to. My problem is some players unwilling to stray from their comfort zone. As stated earlier, this is not set in stone and may not be changed or altered at all, but the 3 week rule would be in place, regardless! Profile
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Ash |
Posted: 2008-07-30 14:37
Nothing to do with comfort zones (in my case anyway). I enjoy pool, I don't take anything that serious. Hobby definition: meaning "to follow a favorite pastime", and in turn, hobby in the modern sense of recreation.
Hobbies are practiced for interest and enjoyment, rather than financial reward. So it doesn't matter where you finish. I don't think it to be my division. It is the Tuesday night division where I play pool. I choose to play or not to play. I would agree with you that Chris is better than me and all the other players in the Tuesday league. He finished top of the division. I refer you to the definition of a hobby. It doesn't matter. I think, that if there were no prize and just an entry fee to cover costs, I bet there would be no malice born in the direction of the better players who are placed in the lower divisions. Lets face it, the prize unless you do finish top, is a bit of a token. You pay out what you get back. I would be interested to know if that is the reason. Its not always about winning, it might be about doing the best you can and if that is against a better player, then your point is irrelevant. Its not about me, you are right, but if you ask for opinions, please be respectful when someone responds to your request. It is my opinion, but I think you will find it reflects the thoughts of many. We seem to focusing on Chris a little too much. We have to ask what is best for the participants and the venue. If it ain't broke.... The players who finished bottom this season will go down to the other Tuesday division which is played on a Tuesday. They should still have the goal of promotion - to a Night which they want to play in. Thursday - If players get promoted and say they can't make it - what would the reason be? Maybe, they can't make it on that day. TA Profile
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acomblad |
Posted: 2008-07-30 15:46
On 2008-07-30 14:37 , Ash Wrote:
!!! QUOTE !!! Nothing to do with comfort zones (in my case anyway). I enjoy pool, I don't take anything that serious. Hobby definition: meaning "to follow a favorite pastime", and in turn, hobby in the modern sense of recreation. Excellent tool Wikipedia Opinion again. Any hows thats yours and your welcome to it, just don't push it down our throat. You say hobby/recreation. I don't want argue semantics because to you it is just that, but to some players who use the leagues to improve their play for the Wednesday/Sunday leagues it is more so. Just a thought! !!! QUOTE !!!
It does if it involves promotion/relegation....... !!! QUOTE !!!
Yes you choose to play in that division and it is a comfortable division to play in. For now! Think we have covered hobby or your classification of your pastime. !!! QUOTE !!!
Be interested no more. Read the first post and then you will see the reasons for the change. !!! QUOTE !!!
It's about taking part...yawn, yawn, yawn. If you class it as a hobby then wherever you finish is irrelevant, so in defence of the better players, they could improve your hobby. !!! QUOTE !!!
Respect is always given when due! So your opinion is that of the majority? Not from the feedback I have received. Only a moan from you at the moment. A Tuesday player (coincidence?) !!! QUOTE !!!
Stop going on about Chris. Just tell him your feelings: The venue concerned is more than just a place that I ply my "hobby" unlike you, and the participants as I have said are more than keen on the idea. !!! QUOTE !!!
Do you not read anything other than your own words? It is broke. People are not turning up for the nights and times allocated. !!! QUOTE !!!
What about the players who finish at the top in Tuesday Division 1. Do they stay there perpetually. Ludicrous argument. !!! QUOTE !!!
What? More gobbledeegook. Another keyboard hider who thinks that his opinion counts for the majority. Profile
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Ash |
Posted: 2008-07-30 16:02
I thought you were collating opinions?
If you ask for opinions then argue against them, then you are influencing the outcome. Sorry you feel the way you do about my opinion. I can appreciate your frustration. But, as we all think and understand in different ways, you won't always get back what you want. Thanks for the banter, I don't think this is a good way to communicate the argument any how, as the written word can be misinterpreted. Why use all those words when two will do? Cheers Profile
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acomblad |
Posted: 2008-07-30 16:27
On 2008-07-30 16:02 , Ash Wrote:
!!! QUOTE !!! I thought you were collating opinions? I asked for feedback about the benefit of changing the league for all. Not just for your opinion. I am sorry you feel frustrated about how the league may alter, but as I have said change is needed not just for a handful of players who can easily be replaced, but for the majority of players. The league itself must change for it to become a successful part of the Acomb pool scene. I do prefer a face to face discussion rather than a dig behind a keyboard. If you could get out any other night than a Tuesday you could continue your sparkling repertoire of arguments over the merits of keeping the league the same for you, as opposed to changing the Acomb pool league for all. BTW. Cheers is one word........... *Note* As stated above. Please get in touch via pm/e-mail/text if any new players want to enter any of the leagues or if any regular players do not wish to enter the new league (if applicable) [ This message was edited by: acomblad on 2008-07-30 16:33 ] Profile
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Si |
Posted: 2008-07-30 16:33
I am quite tempted by the Monday league next year.
Do you know roughly when it is due to start again? Profile
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acomblad |
Posted: 2008-07-30 16:34
September. Early I think.
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Ash |
Posted: 2008-07-30 16:45 Funny! Its just the way I write - no digging intended! But feeback is an opinion. I can't help it, whatever I write comes out as a dig!!! Profile
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acomblad |
Posted: 2008-07-30 16:51
On 2008-07-30 16:45 , Ash Wrote:
!!! QUOTE !!!
Obviously in your head your hilarious. (large ego - should be a good pool player) I suggest getting out more......... not just on a Tuesday....... [ This message was edited by: acomblad on 2008-07-30 16:56 ] Profile
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acomblad |
Posted: 2008-07-30 17:29
Interested in your feedback/opinion/banter (semantics again).
What do people think about having a league system where a player improves his/her ability to challenge for the top by improving the quality of players as he/she improves, against a system where a player enters a league to knock the balls about with his/her friends (loose terms for Ash). Is the second system not just a knock about? Do players enter to finish mid table? Is there any concern for the money or would players rather it was just played for entry only (nominal) or nothing at all? BTW. Your opinion was appreciated Ash, but if people looked at the league lay out, they would see that it does in essence only effect a small number of players. So their view would be more acceptable than just one persons opinion. [ This message was edited by: acomblad on 2008-07-30 17:52 ] Profile
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SiHoggy |
Posted: 2008-07-30 18:36
One thing that ash says which I definately disagree with is the "If it aint broke..." arguments.
I think it's clear there's a definate problem with the Independent leagues at the moment. There's postponements all over the shop and it's not just the Monday league. Tuesdays are a big culprit too - Saturday nights have had to be booked to cover catch up matches! Saying that though I do think Chelle does a great job in pulling it all together in light of all the postponements. Also if you're into your semantics, they are called leagues after all. Leagues suggest competition and with any good competition there is always structure and bringing back promotion and relegation will bring back that element! I for one am looking forward to trying to get as high as I can in the leagues and play against the best players I can. Afterall, that's the best way to improve. [ This message was edited by: SiHoggy on 2008-07-31 00:43 ] Profile
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SiHoggy |
Posted: 2008-07-30 18:38
oh and p.s
I was loving the linking to wikipedia part, did make me chuckle! Profile
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acomblad |
Posted: 2008-08-13 16:19
Are these players still interested?
Who is a definite and who is not? Please pm/text or post to let me know.......... *PROVISIONAL* Division 1 - Monday Paul Thomas Simon Newby Rich Train Steve Thomas Dave Sanderson Si Morris Tony Lee John Hollingsworth Dave Potter Allan Scott Steve Wood Chris Leaf Danny Bodden (has-been) Si Hogbin Paul Wilson Division 2 - Tuesday Lucas Bingham Dave Potter John Patrick Russ Greaves Ash McGovern Nick Shields ? Mike Reid Lisa Macdonald Chelle Gatenby Simon Stead Steve Watson Paul Walton Claire McPherson Les Smith Paul Maude Division 3 - Thursday ? 2 Pies Chris McPherson Isaac Green Sam Pearson Gaz ??? Liam Pearson Kirsty Mitchison Stuart Galloway NOTE: If I have missed you out or put you in when you are not playing, please let me know asap. [ This message was edited by: acomblad on 2008-08-26 13:51 ] Profile
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CaptainSemiconcious |
Posted: 2008-08-13 16:22
I might play again in a lower division when do you have to know by?
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acomblad |
Posted: 2008-08-13 16:32
On 2008-08-13 16:22 , CaptainSemiconcious Wrote:
!!! QUOTE !!! I might play again in a lower division when do you have to know by? Next week, week after that at the latest........... Numbers (and a word with Paul) would obviously decide the format. I do prefer 8 or 16 in a league for ease of fixtures. Profile
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